I am already tired of hearing people they are ashamed to be Arizonans today. Dude, my state is represented by two dolts (I've yet to meet someone who voted for them, and yet they continue to legislate in our names) who do things that embarrass me on a regular basis, but I'll never be ashamed to be a Montanan. Or an Arizona native. Laws and legislators come and go, the land and its peeps are forever.
UPDATE 5/5/10: I also found THIS LINK helpful.
I think THIS is an interesting discussion about what's happening is Arizona. I am neither outraged nor thrilled. My general feeling is you've nothing to fear if you've nothing to hide, BUT that's easy to say up here in Montana, far from the crisis. I love Mexicans AND I love the law AND I think it's super ingnorant when people get bent out of shape when a law starts being enforced.
BUT I also like the practical arguments of this article because unenforceable laws just make us look stupid and impotent, and I think there are better, more realistic ways of cracking down. oh, sigh.
I don't sound very libertarian here, which is why I don't call myself one, although that's generally how I roll. I kinda feel the same way about this as I did when my parents said they'd never get OnStar cuz the government would be able to track your every move. Mmmmkay, but as for me and my house, we've nothing to hide...that'd get really boring for the government really quick! However, I know there are great legal minds and fabulous constitutional scholars who will hash this out and make it fair for BOTH the legal, tax-paying citizens of Arizona AND the immigrants who do--legally or illegally--so much to make a life here.
(Yes, I know there is a huge crime problem stemming from the immigration crisis, but I also know lots of good, hard-working people who get screwed by the system, including some really dear friends/fellow BYU students and missionaries, the issues run super deep and there are no simple fixes). I am interested in reading your opinions if you can share them rationally (without getting angry).
8 comments:
i had a chat conversation yesterday with a young man who is angry about this, because his aunts and uncles are now living in fear. i completely agree with you..if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. however, if one believes that simply because they are one of the 'good kind' of illegals..that they don't deserve this, there's a problem. what i expressed to this young man was that we all make choices in life. yes, his family came over seeking a better life..but they chose to do so illegally (the broke the law). his dad made it right and became a citizen after coming over. they knew the risks, and the consequence applies. so, in that sense, i do not believe they are getting 'screwed'..choices..consequences...there is always a choice that doesn't involve dishonesty or breaking a law. also, i wish the hispanic community's anger was geared toward the drug smugglers, car thieves, gang bangers and other criminals who are making laws like this necessary, instead of the cops who are doing their jobs trying to make our neighborhoods safer.
This is an issue in Southern California as well....there just doesn't seem to be an "easy" answer...although maybe driving without a license should be an arrestable offense...not sure how to get the problem "fixed"
Hmmm...not too many comments so far. I wonder why? My niece was one of those FB people who posted some petition on her page. I commented on it in disbelief, and she removed her entire post within hours. I really don't know what became of it--were there comments about my comment (I was expecting some vitriolic retribution)? Did she perhaps realize that her gesture was both fruitless and too late? I don't know. I listened to interviews with several legislators prior to Gov. Brewer's signing on NPR; I listened to her speech prior to signing; I listened to co-workers in law enforcement for the past several days and weeks. One of the greatest ironies I find is the disparity in both knowledge and opinion between those in the law enforcement community and those outside it. Sadly, this is a product of our legal system and its need for "sensitivity, privacy, and secrecy" during legal proceedings, much of which never makes the news. When it does, it is usually a passing comment about the increased level of violence due to drug trafficking and human smuggling. Case in point: a few months ago, photos were distributed at work that were "law enforcement sensitive" and were not to be disseminated to any news services or to private email, etc. They depicted the end result of a DPS chase along the interstate of a full size van. Phoenix PD ultimately made the stop, and the driver and passenger fled. When they opened the van, it was filled to the brim--I mean stuffed--with body parts. More pictures followed of the parts of some 30-40 people strewn in a warehouse for comparison and identification.
This is horrifying.
What most people don't know is that these things occur with REGULARITY now, and it is tied directly to human smuggling. I have personally witnessed and had conversations with illegal immigrants in jail, who, fearing for the lives of their loved ones, risked their exposure to law enforcement-for the family's protection-because they found out the coyote would either kidnap and hold for ransom or most likely kill his family.
This issue really is too dangerous to ignore, but due to a failure on the federal government's part to ever enforce existing laws adequately, state and local governments are now forcing the issue. I see this as more political maneuvering than anything else. It forces the federal government to take more aggressive action in addressing the dangers and the logistical concerns of illegal immigration. Arizona was only the first state to pass such a law. I heard that seventeen other states are considering similar legislation. Someone had to do it first.
Now, do I have anything to hide? Well, I've tried to keep quiet about my job in these public forums. Many law enforcement agencies no longer allow their employees to even have a FB page in their own name, because it can be subpeonaed and possibly used to discredit an officer (based on behavior, language, pictures). But when people at my job ask me what stance my church takes on these issues, then the debate becomes more complex (but not necessarily more complicated). Attitudes we learn in church certainly play a role in civic behavior. How they translate into our participation in the legislative and legal challenges of society are wholly different. What takes a higher priority, the Rule of Law or the Golden Rule? Can they not find equal or at least equitable representation?
It's time to get ready for Church, where I'm sure I'll have this conversation several more times.
If I could make one more comment/question...enforcing immigration law is not impossible; it's not even overly burdensome on the taxpayers or law enforcment as a whole. It simply hasn't been a priority.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment, Meeky. I think you and I are feeling the same quandary about this, and I feel it all the time about a lot of issues, especially after reading Nibley (esp. "Approaching Zion") and every word that Christ has said. Today at chruch the phrase "Mercy cannot rob justice" was ringing in my ears (and the AF that says, "We believe...it obeying, honoring, and sustining the law") AS WELL AS, "But of you it is required to forgive all men" and "I will fight your battles" and "Love One Another." It's for sure a Thing That Makes Me Go HMMM. When I feel like this, when I can't suss the answers, this scripture gives me comfort: "I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things..." and I do not know the solution to all of life's problems, especially the ones we create for ourselves (and I think it's kind of arogant to argue issues whenin your heart, you don't really know either!). I just know that God loves His children; He wants us to love eachother and to forgive eachother, but to be obedient and honest in the process. It's a fine line, but I try to walk it.
PS: I love good cops..there are a few in my circle of family and friends, and I would that all law enforcement officials and lawyers were as deeply-thinking and -feeling and upstanding as my loved ones. Thank you for what you do to honor and sustain the law and to protect me.
cop here: and i say you can't just go around asking people if they are a citizen! its hard enough getting them to tell you their real freaking name, let alone what country their from. I think the law is a sure way to pay out some big dollars to those who feel profiled and humiliated. I can promise you this... if a cop acts on his/her "reasonable suspicion" and the dude is a citizen... hmmm not going to be pretty for that department. I don't have a good answer for the problem... maybe a ginormous electric fence!
Jesus is going to come and fix it all we won't be black and white, crackers and wetbacks, we are just going to be good and evil. As for me and My house we choose good.
It is rather sad huh? I agree with you in the "got nothin' to hide" dept. Unfortunatly, there will still be those that get burned for no reason other than their last name or skin shade.
Just proves, a few folks can ruin it for all y'all.
Wouldn't want to be back home at present. Think I would get sick of hearing about it day in day out.
What do you think Cinco de Mayo will be like this year? Kennedy Park crack down!
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